Karina: Welcome to the Landscape Ontario podcast. I’m your host, Karina Sinclair. Today I’m talking with Grant Harrison, who is no stranger to the Landscape Ontario community. He originally joined Landscape Ontario as a landscaper in the early 2000s, and now he owns Nextra Consulting. He has held leadership roles with the London Chapter Board for several years and has been an active member of the Peer to Peer Network.
Grant has also presented at Congress multiple times and has contributed articles to Landscape Trades and Landscape Ontario magazines. He generously shares his wisdom with the landscaping community at every turn. That wisdom comes from owning a landscaping business, evolving it, learning from challenges and understanding how to navigate the many pitfalls and opportunities that come with being a business owner.
Now Grant helps other landscape business owners do the same. I invited Grant to talk about his upcoming workshop series for business owners, as well as how the “Great Resignation” and the current economy affects those working in the green trades. If that sounds relevant to you, stay tuned.
Music Interlude
Karina: Thanks for making the time to chat with me today. Grant, It’s a delight to have you on the podcast again.
Grant: Thank you so much. It’s great to be back here and to have some time with you. Excited to share what’s going on in our world with you guys.
Karina: Excellent. Now, you and I first met last month when we created a promo for your upcoming education series that will be hosted by the Waterloo Chapter. There’s four sessions planned from September to December. Tell me about why you designed the learning objectives specifically for business owners and leaders.
Grant: Yes, I wish I could take the credit for that, I guess, the bigger picture, but I didn’t. So Joe had approached me about taking a different approach to chapter meetings. And Waterloo chapter was looking for, you know, something new, something… a way to get not just get owners out, but to get their staff out and to do more of a series type teaching at a chapter meeting, rather than just random topics every once in a while. Stuff like that.
So Joe approached me and said, Listen, would you be able to put some sessions together to kind of go along and teach that CLP, the certification program, that has been around for years? And so he kind of threw the gauntlet down. I was like, Yeah, let me take a look at it. I pulled out all my books from, I think I had them, it’s been ten years since I’ve had those books off my shelf, so I was able to take each of the modules off and kind of open them up and dust them off and just go through them individually and just try to figure, okay, how can we make this CLP content, which is an amazing content, how can we make it interactive? How can we make it, you know, obviously do it in one evening because that’s a big thing. There’s a lot of content in that. But not just for owners. Like I said, we’re trying to make it for other people within the business. So interactive, lots of knowledgebase and that someone’s going to take away something at the end and then implement it within their business. So that’s the whole goal of it, is that we want anyone that shows up for the event, we’re looking at what to do within 30, 60, 90 days to improve your business based on the content that we teach that night. So we’re really excited to do this with the chapter. And the chapter board had a vision for their site, I presented to the board a couple of months ago. And yeah, and you and I did a promo for it. So now we just got to really just teach it. So I’m really excited to do that.
Karina: It’s really exciting to see something like this being offered to the chapter members. And when you’re talking about Joe, you mean Joe Salemi, the Executive Director of Landscape Ontario?
Grant: Correct. Yeah.
Karina: And so what will the attendees get out of this? I mean, obviously there’s some great knowledge, of course, but what will they walk away feeling like they have accomplished?
Grant: Yes, I think to maybe take a step back. So we’ve kind of broken it down to a bunch of sessions. So in September, we’re going to talk about human resources. So obviously, staffing is still high level on a lot of concerns for owners. The people that should attend this event are definitely HR focused. So owners, anyone from your senior management team, any HR managers, any general manager, even crew leaders, anyone who has people under them. This whole session is focused on them and really what we want them to do is give them skills, give them knowledge so they can manage people better, they can retain staff, they can help talk to staff, they can overall help them do better with staff.
And as an industry, we don’t necessarily do this well. You know, typically most managers are promoted into a position without a lot of training. So we want to do is say, ‘hey, you’re in this position now, here’s some skills, here’s some education that can help you do your job better, which again, will help company culture in the end.’
That’s what we’re hoping they’ll walk away from.
Karina: Well, I imagine a lot of small and medium sized business owners — they’re wearing many hats. They’re already trying to do many different roles, learning so much. And perhaps they started as somebody who had tended gardens or might have been just a one person shop in the beginning. And then as they grew, had to suddenly take on all these roles that weren’t part of their background or education or formal training. So this is really great to have a sense of ‘here’s how you properly approach these things, like human resources.’
Grant: Yeah. So again, we want them to walk away with practical stuff. We’re going to give them some templates that they can take back. What is onboarding? What would a good onboarding program look like? We want to talk about a handbook, and the one thing we see all the time as consultants is what’s the value of a good job description. It’s really, really important to do that.
So again, we’re excited about doing this and obviously lots of stories, lots of pain points in this area. So that’s why we’ve chosen it first, is around this HR component.
Karina: So when you’re talking about great job descriptions, what’s something that you’ve noticed or that could be immediately impactful for improving a job posting.
Grant: For a job posting, I think the improvement is you have to make it creative. Too many people just have like ‘a landscape crew leader’ and then they just start listing stuff that it is. And I think you really have to get creative. It’s like creative writing, you know. There’s too many people; you have to stand out. Just like if you’re marketing your business, you need to market your business toward your staff. And if your job posting sounds just looks or sounds like all the other people that are looking for that type of person, you’re not going to stand out. So the most effective ones, again, are just creative writing, think outside the box, which again, for most of us, like you said, are like business owners, not typical creative writers or not marketing people.
But we really encourage you to look at other positions, like, what other companies are doing, not necessarily in our world, but find something that’s creative that’s going to stand out.
Karina: That’s great advice. So that’s the HR component. Tell me a bit more about the other topics..
Grant: Yes. In October, obviously a majority of our members are looking at snow. So we’re doing a whole focus on snow and ice. Again, people that show up pretty much, you know, same type of people. They’re looking for owners, managers, crew leaders, that senior team, people that are involved in operations. What we’re looking for is how to make a better snow business. There’s a lot of people that do snow as an afterthought. So what we’re going to do is we’re really going to dig down and be like, how do you make a really, really good snow business. A lot of contractors are afraid of slip and fall. So how to prepare you for slip and fall? If you ever have to do a discovery, guys and girls in this for long enough, they know that that’s a big fear. So we’re going to talk about a slip and fall claim, we have an actual checklist we’re going to share with you. So ‘here’s the things that you need to be prepared for if you go into a discovery,’ like weather maps, site maps, like just all those type of things that you need that you can prepare for that when it comes down to you having to prove you did your due diligence that you’re ready to go for that.
Preseason inspection checklist. We’re going to talk about that. We find a lot of contractors don’t do a very good job onboarding clients in the wintertime, especially if maybe they’ve taken on a maintenance client, they’ve taken them on in the green season in the spring, but then it just kind of rolls around the winter. So really taking the time to sit there and say, ‘hey, this is a different business,’ so you want to get together with the client again and so this is how we do snow. It’s probably much different than maybe the last contractor did snow. So you want to explain that to them.
And then just giving them some good training. You know, we see that a lot of times that there’s not a lot of good fall training. A lot of contractors do really well in the spring but we want to be able to give them a template of what does a good fall rodeo training look like, that’s interactive, that’s fun, that’s interesting for the staff they’re not just kind of wandering around after 20 minutes. So a lot of good tips on how to improve that. And then the goal of that is ultimately we want the guys to be more profitable as well. So when you build a better snow business, that automatically and directly leads to better profit in snow.
Karina: The interesting idea of onboarding your client as well as your staff, that’s something that I think often gets forgotten, is helping the client understand and set expectations for the services that you can and could provide. And helping them also be part of those site evaluations and taking responsibility and I think that that’s really clever to make sure that you’re including that element and not just the employee onboarding.
Grant: A lot of times it’s just expectations, right? What client’s expectation was of how we service the site versus maybe the way that we do it. Right. And we run into that all the time. When we hear contractors fail on a job, that usually starts within the first couple services. So again, if you can have that conversation upfront with the client, ‘here’s how we service it. This is how we do it and here’s the why we do it.’ Then the client has understood that on that first snow event, their expectations are already set. And again, it just starts with trust. If we lose trust at the start of a relationship, it’s so hard to build it back up.
Karina: Exactly. So November and December, what kind of topics are we looking at there?
Grant: So in November, hopefully what we’re hoping that most guests will have snow wrapped up a little bit, not necessarily all done, but we really want to start focusing on, for November, we’re kind of looking at what’s the strategic planning? So many of us as contractors are just so busy doing the work that we actually don’t take the time to just stop, breathe and make a plan for the year.
So really, that’s what we want to teach. This course is more focused on owners and senior management team, not necessarily with crew leaders. So this one’s a little bit more focused on people that see where the business is going and the bigger picture. So we want to slow them down.
We really want to help them plan out next year. Where do we want to go in 2024? We want to have a plan. We want to have some goals. We want to have some KPIs and we want to start planning those January 1st, because everyone has that calendar year in mind, right?
Grant: Like, January 1st, the start of the year. What are we going to do? So what we want to teach the contractors is, you know, what type of template should you use, what type of conversations should you have? We want to make sure that you’re understanding your market strategy. You know, what is your financial plan that you’re going to have to do? Again, what do you want to do for your human resources? This is not going away.
So if we can actually strategically plan about our HR and where we want to go, we have a better chance of success when it comes to that. Maybe your corporate structure needs to change. A lot of companies struggle with communication internally. So what does a good communication flow look like? What does an effective use of technology look like? So it’s all those things that definitely get left always at the bottom of our list or ‘I’ll get to that. I’ll get to that or get to that.’ You know, I used to say, ‘let’s tackle that on a rainy day.’ Well, rainy days just don’t seem to happen anymore so we have to be really strategic about having all those conversations in advance. And then, yeah, we want to just teach all that. If no one’s ever gone through a strategic day, we’re going to give you a template of how to do that and then do it as a team, not just the owner trying to do that by himself.
Karina: That’s really great to help improve buy-in from the whole team.
Grant: That’s what we want. We don’t want the owner to be alone in this. Being an owner is lonely at best of days so if you can bring your team along then there does become great buy-in when it comes to that. So that’s for November.
December, we’re doing marketing and sales management. So as December comes in trying to figure out like, what are we going to do this year for sales? Whether that’s in maintenance, like getting that green season spring contract or if you’re design/ build or construction, you know, hitting the ground with your marketing plan.
What is the advertising and are we going to do any promotional programs this year? People are a bit people are a bit scared about, you know, what is the economy going to do? So I think we need to get better. We’ve been really good, as an industry, being order takers this last couple of years, but we need to actually start marketing ourselves and we actually have to learn how to sell again because yeah, the order taking world has disappeared. So yeah, we want to make sure that you’re looking at your website, how does your social media look, how do you actually track some of these things?
It’s great to spend a bunch of money on social media and marketing. But what should the results be? What’s your ROI on that? We’re going to talk about how much you should spend based on the size of your company. We’re going to touch on that.
We’re going to look at sales process. Like when we do, someone does call the office, we don’t want to run to every person that calls our office. We want to identify what our ideal client is. We should be asking clarifying questions. Don’t chase every lead that comes into your office. We want to make sure that we’re using our time properly.
Understanding good estimating practices so when we do get a job, we want to make sure that we can make money at it. And then just developing all kinds of other standards and processes within the company around, again, the marketing and sales management that you have.
Karina: And improving the understanding and appreciation for all of those elements I think will help with the fear of what’s happening in the economy because you mentioned that people are a little bit scared of what might be happening or what will happen in the next year. Let’s talk about that a little bit. What kinds of questions are you hearing from your clients or your seminar attendees these days? What’s keeping them awake at night?
Grant: We typically meet with clients once a month and obviously January, February, the number one question we had was, you know, we all know that we’ve had three great years, like unbelievable great years, and we knew that it couldn’t sustain itself. So if you were listening to the news, it was doomsday. Everything was going to collapse. Everything was going to end. Inflation’s on the rise. It was just bad! If you didn’t listen to the news, you were fine. But for those of us who do listen to the news or read the newspaper, stuff like that, it was it was gloomy. When contractors ask us these questions, I always break it out into a couple of different sections. So to me, if you do maintenance and snow, this work actually has, in my opinion, has actually sped up.
We obviously do a lot of work in Ontario. Like right now, there is so much building going on in the commercial-industrial-institution world. Just seems like every time you turn around there’s another Amazon warehouse. So all of those places need grass cut and snow plowed and that is always recession proof. It doesn’t really matter. You know, if you look at it after a distribution center, there’s no one out there going to shovel the snow or plow the snow or cut the grass. That’s just not what it is.
So if you’re involved in that commercial-industrial-institutional maintenance and snow world, it’s only looking up, so I think that’s really good. It’s not going away. All those projects have been a couple of years in advance. So, it’s going to take a bunch of economic pressures to slow those projects down.
I think there’s government grant money coming right now. So again, that’s typically what happens is the government will start spending money on infrastructure to keep the economy going, which again, we get the end of that. You know, so they’re going to do a bridge repair or they’re going to build a highway, there’s landscaping at the very end of that as well. So I think that stuff is not going to go away.
I think on the maintenance side, if you are doing residential maintenance, I would say you’re probably — again, depending on the type of client you work with — if you have a high end client, I don’t think that stuff’s going away. I think those people will continue to spend money. They continue to want the property to look good. They’re continuing to spend money on enhancements. So we have not seen a downturn at all or a slowdown in that. Actually, if not, if anything, there’s a speed up again. The pace has kept going.
On the residential side, we have seen a slowdown for sure, especially in the range between $0 — and depending on where you’re geographically — $50,000, those jobs have definitely slowed down.
We can see that in the housing starts. So, new first time home builders right now are like braking to a halt. The houses that are, you know, a million and a half to 2 million plus are still taking off, which again, doesn’t really make any sense when you look at it. But those $2 million homes, they’re not stopping the landscaping. And again, that bleeds then into the landscape construction side of it.
Yeah, those smaller projects, those like ‘hey, I would like a little patio back or I’d like a front walkway or can I do a little retaining wall?’ Those are definitely slowing down. But the people that are doing full backyard pools, cabanas, irrigation, lighting… though those jobs have not slowed down at all.
We have a client in Owen Sound right now, and he told me they’re booking into 2025. So that’s how far ahead they are. So yeah, so again, I think segments of it are going to slow down. But that higher end residential design/ build world is not going to slow down anytime soon unless there’s another huge impact financial impact here. But again, so you just have to get to know your client and make some changes as far as that goes.
Karina: I wonder if the fact that travel has opened up again has created a little ripple in this industry. Those who had planned to travel before and then couldn’t due to the pandemic, maybe they decided to put in a back deck or some sort of pool feature or something to create an oasis in their yard. And now that travel around the world is accessible again, maybe people are deciding they just don’t want to be stuck at home anymore and they’re looking to get away again instead of staying in their own private oasis.
Grant: Yeah, I think if they’re price conscious or they’re budget conscious, I think they would probably choose a trip now rather than, you know, like a back deck where before they didn’t have a choice. Right? It was the back deck or nothing. So I think they did do that. And I think that’s where the people that are budget friendly are moving towards. They’re definitely, I would say, moving towards travel or travel vacations. So but again, with the people that have that $2 million house, I think they’re still doing both. You know, they are traveling and I think they are still doing their backyard or front yard.
Karina: So overall, it sounds like the picture looks pretty positive for landscapers and horticulturalists. It seems like it doesn’t have to be quite so gloomy after all.
Grant: No, I don’t think so. And I think the other side of it on the snow side for snow contractors is we see this every year, but I still see the trend. There’s lots of contractors getting out of snow for insurance reasons or just the fact that maybe their design/ build is is doing really, really well so they don’t need the headache. A lot of contractors don’t like snow. They just see it as a pain. So there’s still lots of opportunities for current contractors to grow their small business. And because I think there’s less competition out there for them. So we’re seeing lots of lots of contractors grow significantly in their snow division just because they’re having clients call them and say, ‘our contractor just told me the other day that he’s getting out of snow. He doesn’t want the insurance, does want the headache, not profitable for them. So can you bid this property for me?’ So again, for those contractors that do snow well, at large scale, there’s going to be lots more work out there for them this coming year.
Karina: In the last year or two, the ‘Great Resignation’ has been a pretty big buzz word and term that’s been passed around and lots of people are talking about it. Has that been an issue for the green profession? Has there been a great exodus of talented staff from these jobs?
Grant: Yes, I think everyone, doesn’t matter what business you have. And I still think it’s going on right now. We live just outside of London and even our local Tim Hortons, even the other night on Saturday night was closed at 6 p.m. because of a lack of staff. So it’s just crazy and I guess that goes back to the current economy.
Our unemployment rates are so low, right? There’s still so many people looking for work for that. To go back to the Great Resignation, I do believe I think it’s slowed down for sure. I think where we saw it at the start of COVID was a lot of people just had some time to reevaluate where they were.
So maybe they were in a job for ten years and they were just comfortable in that job. And then, when something comes along and shakes everything up, everyone has the time just to think about, ‘do I want to keep doing this for the next ten years?’ You know, maybe it’s a mediocre job. Maybe they don’t see any advancement. So those are the type of times that people think about those things and then act on them, despite all the chaos that was going on. We saw tons of people just being coming in and resigning and just being like, ‘listen, I want to do something else. I want to go into another trade. I want to try another career,’ and apologizing because they’re like, ‘there’s really nothing wrong with my current job. I’m happy. But I just really want to do something else.’
So we saw that. We did see a lot of turnover. Like I would say, you know, turnover was excessive. You know, we always measured it as a KPI of you need to keep 80 per cent of your people year over year or season over season. And we were seeing companies that were typically 80 per cent or higher, 90 per cent year over year in the last two or three years, get down to 50, 40, 30 per cent like it was just crazy and it’s nothing they were doing wrong. Nothing had changed within the company. Just people were doing it.
The other thing that happened was there was a lot of people moving for money. So typically we would as an industry be like, ‘oh, someone would go down the road for an extra $0.50.’ And there was always those type of people within our organization. But last summer, last fall, I was taking a call from an owner once a week saying ‘I just had to give out $10 an hour or $15 an hour or $20 an hour raises to great people because, you know, another contractor said that that’s what they had to pay.’ And I would say that it actually brings us back up to where we should be paying. But to go that fast, to scale that back up to kind of where we should be paying so quickly and especially for people, you know, inflation’s a real thing. So it’s hard as an employee to sit there and say, ‘the contractor down the road could pay me extra $15 an hour.’ That’s a big number. That’s not $0.50. That’s noticeable in your paycheck. And when people are looking at, ‘I would like to buy a home’ — homeownership is almost out of grasp for so many first time home buyers and that is our ideal staff member right now is those people in that economic space and they want to set they want to set roots up so we have to pay them well.
So there’s a lot of people that just couldn’t even afford to pay that so they would lose them on that or didn’t know if they could afford them. So they were afraid to say yes because of the economic impact. So yeah, I would say there’s still a lot of it. We’re seeing now that has slowed down significantly. We’re seeing that retention rates are great this year, this spring for sure. Even people are coming back. People that might have left — you know, grass is greener on the other side — are coming back to their old company and saying, ‘hey, you know, I left for a couple bucks. But I realized that I really miss this place and I really want to come back.’ So that’s encouraging as well.
But yeah, for sure, we’re still in a shortage of skilled labour. That’s not going away anytime soon so you cannot take your foot off the gas as far as creating good culture, looking for staff and great training and, you know, be willing to take people that don’t know the industry and willing to train them. And we’re not good at that as an industry unfortunately.
Karina: Was there any reverse effect? Was there an influx of people who hadn’t been in the green profession before, who had been working other jobs, maybe corporate jobs or something else for that decided, ‘you know what, I’m reevaluating my priorities and I want to be in nature more. I want to be surrounded by green. I want to do something more meaningful.’ Was there any movement in that direction?
Grant: I think there was a movement. I think if I kind of think about where I saw that, we saw that in, I guess higher level, like managers or senior leadership positions, we saw some movement there and we thought we were going to see a lot of it in the field staff. I don’t think we did. And again, I think there was just so much work coming to us that week everyone could have used two, three, four or five new staff, right? So where before, if we got one or two of those key people, they even weren’t enough. Even if we got one good person, it was like we still need three more people. So yeah, I don’t think it had as much impact as we are hoping to. You know, I still think there was a lot of people being like, how many people are still sitting on hold on government programs, which they ended early on, but it just felt like there were still a lot of people sitting at home and not looking for work.
Karina: Something that maybe as a whole, we need to continue to promote the value and the benefits of working in this space and that it is a viable career option and not something where you don’t just end up being a minimum wage laborer the whole time but that there’s room for growth and progression.
Grant: Yeah. And there is and this is the one thing that Landscape Ontario has done an amazing job on, you know, the chapter meetings. Again, that’s why we’re trying to do at the Waterloo chapter is to get more people within your organization to come to these meetings and come to see that this is exciting. There is a career here. I think there’s a good uptake and just excitement for the trades in general.
You know, the schools are starting to promote trades. You know, there’s some great spokespeople out there that are promoting trades, which is great. But now we’re having to compete against more about the trades, right? The youth that are coming out today are looking at electricians. They are looking at plumbers. They do pay well; those trades do pay typically higher than we do.
It’s exciting. Like we do have an amazing trade. We have such a great network, we have such a strong association that can help contractors with this and can create good culture. So yeah, if they’re struggling with it, just reach out to someone, come to an event, come to an LO event and just ask someone to share something. You’ll get so much back by coming and sharing some of your pains and people will share what’s working for them.
Karina: You’re such a great ambassador, Grant. Thank you for that. Now, I was looking at your blog a little bit earlier and you have a great series where you recommend Books of the Month. Do you have a recent favourite book that you’d like to share with our listeners today?
Grant: I do, actually. I heard this gentleman on a podcast a couple of months ago. His name is David C Bentall and why this one grabbed my attention was because Bentall Properties, for those of us who are in commercial management, we look after a lot of Bentall Properties in Ontario.
So if you know the word Bentall Properties, this is actually the story of the Bentall family, which is a Canadian family. They’re mostly out west and David is the third generation Bentall and they’re majority large construction and then a property management/ property development firm. So I’ve been on Bentall Properties for the last ten years, on and off with myself and then with clients. So when I heard he wrote a book I was really interested. But the book is about transitioning family businesses and family wealth, and he shares his story that him, his father and his uncle did this transition and it went awful. They made tons of mistakes and ended up splitting the family up, splitting the company up and he’s sharing his story about what happened there and the mistakes that were made and then what to do differently.
And we have a lot of companies right now that we know that are making this transition from a father and son or father and son in law or second generation. There’s a lot of wealth moving. He talked a lot about wealth moving like, when this generation is passing money down to your kids, how do you deal with that? Do you just give it to them? Do they have to earn it? So he does an amazing job about walking us through how to deal with money, how to deal with money and family, how to deal with money, family and the business. And it was just a really, really good book, really, really good story.
He actually has a consulting firm that does this. I think we have two clients I would love to recommend to them because this is all they do. And yeah, so just definitely just love to hear people’s stories. The reason I love this book so much is because it is a great story and he’s very humble. He tells you the mistakes he made, but very practical. Like you can actually walk away with tips that you can implement in your business if you’re in that situation and help you transition that.
Karina: Well, that sounds really relevant for a lot of the family-owned multi-generational businesses that are in the landscaping industry. We have lots of those around. So that’s a great recommendation. Thank you. I’ll be sure to include a link in our show notes.
Lastly, because you are such a wealth of knowledge, I’m sure there’s lots of people who would either love to attend your sessions or who could benefit from learning a bit more from you. How do people get in touch with you and where do they find you?
Grant: Our website is just NextraConsulting.ca. So if you want to go see some of the services that we have, you’re welcome to do that. My email’s just grant@nextraconsulting.ca. I’m happy to reach out and to touch base with you, do a free call with you. I love coffee meetings. Coffee introduction meeting is amazing. I’ll come see you or we can meet halfway. We are so passionate at Nextra about helping contractors make a better business. We understand the majority of the listeners are tradespeople and we want to come alongside you and help you make money with your trade. And to build a better culture, to build a better business.
We really just want to take all the I’ve lessons learned, all the mistakes I’ve made and say, ‘don’t do this. You know, I’ve been down that road. I understand what that is to do that and here’s a better way to do it, or here’s someone else that can help you do that and answer those questions for you.’
The owners work so hard and they don’t have to work as hard as they’re working. The resources are out there. The people are out there that want to help them. So yeah, just a real encouragement for owners to just reach out to someone, reach out to Landscape Ontario, and to reach out to someone else like myself. There’s lots of people out there that want to help you as a contractor. Even this podcast, this podcast is about that, right? It’s to help them within their business. And our Waterloo chapter is just that — we want people to build better businesses, make the industry better and to offer a great career and just make more money. We need to make more money. We work way too hard as owners and we don’t make enough money for all the work and hours we put in.
Karina:
That’s fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on and joining us on the Landscape Ontario podcast today, Grant. I really appreciate all your insights and your knowledge and being so generous with everything that you can share with the landscape audience.
Grant: Yeah. Thank you so much for having us. Always a pleasure to talk to you and just share some information with the audience.
Music Interlude
Karina: If you’re a business owner or leader and would like to unlock your full business potential, you can check out Grant’s seminar series hosted by the Landscape Ontario Waterloo Chapter. It’s free for LO members to attend. We’ll have links in the show notes as well as a full transcription at LandscapeOntario/podcast. And if you have an idea for a future podcast episode, be sure to reach out. We’re always excited to help tell the stories of the Landscape Ontario community.
Thank you again so much for listening to our podcast. We hope you subscribe every month for new episodes.
